Curse

Sethellington · Nov 09, 2010, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Probably PUGs thinking that eles can actually do any damage :P

Mashiyu · Nov 09, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethellington

Probably PUGs thinking that eles can actually do any damage :P

+1

I really like playing with PuGs for Zaishen Missions (and most of the PuGs aren't completely bad) but yeah, they are too ignorant to accept ER healers.

Btw: Has anyone tried an E/Rt healer?

maxxfury · Nov 09, 2010, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

That's nice.

Seems like he wants to know why humans in general don't use it.

That's nice.

Incase you hadn't seen the TWO Question marks, indicating that there was TWO question's in the OP.. TWO questions answered in different posts. One regarding why its never seen in pugs, and one in general...

Replies to which were: bad player? lack of knowledge? misinformation? ect and that you shouldn't base what is good by what pugs use....

pretty simple use of common sense dont ya know?

Anyway.....pretty much covered and reiterated.

Arrogant Bastard · Nov 09, 2010, 03:16 PM // 15:16

ER isn't very good. You don't need it for the large majority of the game.

When you do need it, you won't find many people who can run it and a SC will be faster anyway.

Monks are better because they aren't overkill for the easy parts of the game. For the harder parts, you can just SC it so you will probably need UA incase someone dies.

X Dr Pepper X · Nov 09, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

mostly because the El and Mo suck as damage classes.

Yeah.... no.

Monk has the most powerful nuke in the game, Ray of Judgment. It is mathematically superior in damage, recharge, energy cost to everything else in the game.

And thats on top of other Smiting Prayers skills that do good, reliable damage.

You can also abuse PvE skills.

Nice try though.

Cuilan · Nov 09, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59

How many people in your guild are able to effectively ER (excluding the lazy burning speed bonder build found in SCs)? Less than three? None? How bout your alliance?

Don't join guilds. Any of them. Guilds and alliances suck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Yeah.... no.

Using PvE skills isn't exclusive to Ray of Judgement builds.

One good skill doesn't really make up for the rest of the attribute.

The other good skills in smite aren't normally all found on the same builds.

Zodiac Meteor · Nov 09, 2010, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

How many people in your guild are able to effectively ER (excluding the lazy burning speed bonder build found in SCs)? Less than three? None? How bout your alliance?

This, people can't ER good. Only a hand full of people can play it awesomely.
I generally play with ER's that I know that can heal good but most PuG ER's that I came across mindlessly watch their energy deplete, avoid Great Dwarf Weapon like it isn't important and 'never' cover enchant.

I was doing DoA full run the other day, some guy said I was infusing like pr0's in HA. /facepalm thanks for the complement and all, but this is how ER is supposed to play. Infuse to redbar, spirit bond everything when not redbarring and cover yourself whenever you get the chance.
It's not that hard when you have unlimited energy folks.

Quote:

Monk has the most powerful nuke in the game, Ray of Judgment. It is mathematically superior in damage, recharge, energy cost to everything else in the game.

Discord says hello.

X Dr Pepper X · Nov 09, 2010, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Except that Discord isn't a nuke.

You wouldn't call Flare spam nuking would you?

Monks deal damage just fine what with holy damage being armor ignoring plus the various PvE skills they can tack on to their bar.

I'd agree Eles in HM are substandard. However, I like Thunderclap, Unsteady Ground, and Searing Flames for HM. Those work fine and well.

Zodiac Meteor · Nov 09, 2010, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Except that Discord isn't a nuke.

You wouldn't call Flare spam nuking would you?

It's not a nuke, but it's 10x better than Ray of Judgment.

Quote:

Monks deal damage just fine what with holy damage being armor ignoring plus the various PvE skills they can tack on to their bar.

Yes, but other professions easily out does that. I'd take the smite cleaner over smite damage any day.

Quote:

I'd agree Eles in HM are substandard. However, I like Thunderclap, Unsteady Ground, and Searing Flames for HM. Those work fine and well.

That still doesn't explain why the Charr used /laugh at me while I was hitting it with Searing Flames...

Ele's make good support, but even monks out damage them in HM.

Damaging prowess in HM:

10. Ele's
9. Monks
8. Paragons
7. Rangers

Gennadios · Nov 09, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Yeah.... no.

Monk has the most powerful nuke in the game, Ray of Judgment. It is mathematically superior in damage, recharge, energy cost to everything else in the game.

RoJ isn't a nuke, it's a DoT adjacent range ward. It's also a 2 second cast, there's no guarantee that the target will still be on site when the spell hits.

It's usefulness depends entirely on how capable your team is of bunching enemies and keeping them in place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

You can also abuse PvE skills.

So can the other casting classes, they still abuse them to better effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

And thats on top of other Smiting Prayers skills that do good, reliable damage.

Which skills would those be? The various smiting signets with their 15-20 sec recharge? The Smite Hex/Condition/Reversal, which only deal damage when an enemy is adjacent to a player?

I understand people getting defensive of Mo and El damage capacity when people create a monk or an ele and that's all they're capable of playing. However, even if they do have the damage output to kill things occasionally, the DPS is still inferior to the Necro and Mes.

A Death Blossom sin is capable of doing more adjacent damage than RoJ, and he has the advantage of being able to follow the target.

Cuilan · Nov 09, 2010, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

pretty simple use of common sense dont ya know?

The whole thread is about why players don't use it in general and why it's not seen. Nothing to do with common sense.

maxxfury · Nov 10, 2010, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

If ER is soooo good...Why is it I NEVER see PuG eles ever using Ether Renewal, and outright refuse to do so when we are short on healers?

Was a valid part of the OP..that was answered, along with the rest of the OP.... past caring now anyway...if your gonna argue such petty semantics such as which question is more important, when all have been answered/replied to..

And the simple answer to it all is, people are bad at playing gw, or bad at understanding Gw mechanics and why things work, or dont work..And people been bad at playing doesn't make a build any less effective..

Its also a good thing that "common sense" isnt required to post, or a lot of this thread would have been modded away...

X Dr Pepper X · Nov 10, 2010, 12:47 AM // 00:47

0/10 trolling.

Picking through my post and typing all that text and still not addressing my point gave you away.

You two aren't married are you?

Cuilan · Nov 10, 2010, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Picking through my post and typing all that text and still not addressing my point gave you away.

Instead of replying about how much is said, perhaps you can counter it. I look forward to your reply.

HigherMinion · Nov 10, 2010, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Arrogant is right basically.

Ether Renewal is awesome, but you have to setup your whole team or atleast a second character around making your life easier (AoE Enchant cover, for example). If you don't need that extra help, you're clearly not in a stressful enough situation to warrant bonding 8 players at once and spamming WoH. I mean Infuse.

Eles still suck at damage, and can only be redeemed via AP-EVAS/other PvE skills. And with AP apparently taking a nerf sometime this week, it may be that alot of elementalists are going to be raging unless they get into the ER scene.

X Dr Pepper X · Nov 10, 2010, 01:10 AM // 01:10

You know, I would if they hadn't taken my point and deviated it into something completely different. It isn't relevant to my central idea anymore.

I said Monk had the capability to deal damage well. They may not have as many options as others to run different effective builds, but the point of my post was to state that Monks aren't awful damage dealers.

It was also to state how RoJ is the most mathematically superior nuke in the game, but they trolled/were stupid instead and replied with, "Discord is 10x better"

Totally irrelevant.

There is no profession in GW that has poor damage anymore. Its just poor options to choose from. That was eventually gonna be the point to achieve, but its lost on some posters.

LifeInfusion · Nov 12, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

There is no profession in GW that has poor damage anymore. Its just poor options to choose from. That was eventually gonna be the point to achieve, but its lost on some posters.

I'd say Eles, Rangers, and Dervishes. The 3 professions' damage all depend largely on armor. However, Dervishes and Rangers have Asuran Scan, Eles have By Ural's Hammer.

If you look at the + damages, Rangers have Sloth Hunter's shot and Savage shot, which gets an additional boost from Expert's focus,Read the wind, Glass arrows, etc. Marauder's Shot basically shuts off your bar's utility... (Burning arrow isn't all that hot in PVE.)

Dervishes' damage has Reaper's sweep, mystic sweep,Eremite's attack (conditional). All the other damage is elemental, with the exception of PBAOE holy damage which hits for ~50 holy damage if you invest in mysticism that high (heart of holy flame, Balthazar's rage, Zealous renewal).

Even with 25% armor penetration, 16 air magic...lightning orb hits for 140 at most in HM against caster WiK mobs. In other situations the damage dips to things as low as 30-40 (level 30 rangers, warriors,etc.).

Lightning orb is the benchmark because has every aid to get max damage (Cracked armor applied right before the hit, 25% armor penetration). Unless you go further and use "By ural's hammer", glyph of elemental power, and +1 attribute Golden egg or other cons...that's basically the extent of elemental damage.

Searing flames does about 40-50 also, only 100 against unarmored caster mobs (15 fire magic).

HigherMinion · Nov 12, 2010, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Were elementalists ever supposed to deal such high damage in the first place? If you believe the mechanics are centered around the physicals being the main damage dealers and mid-line being there to support them in their frolics... Why does it matter?

Eles are there for AoE nukes if you like balling; just to keep the players from other MMOs happy.

Premium Unleaded · Nov 12, 2010, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Eles were alright before the aoe scatter nerf (plus, no hm >9000ar mobs back then), although ironically back then, I found the old ER zealot's fire smiting build where you pressed db (or draw conditions if have tank) for great justice to have been the most effective 'nuking' bar.